@jenniferplusplus @thisismissem @laurenshof ouch... so with a combination of these two things, what would need to change to get you psyched about participating in the standardization of all these under-standardized edges?

@liaizon I absolutely agree. I think the client-first development environment for ATProto makes this kind of work extremely emergent.

As @tsyesika said at FOSDEM in the Social Web Devroom, the ActivityPub social API ("C2S") is our equivalent to this programming interface. We need to get it kickstarted so we can build interesting social networking applications without having to build the server side, delivery, queuing, etc.

@liaizon @thisismissem @laurenshof
I genuinely don't know. Lexicons?
They provide 2 critical things. One is schemas, which actually support coordination and interoperability. The other is namespacing, which actually avoids collisions and supports efficient filtering. But linked data makes that impossible.

@liaizon

We're trying to get this going in the SocialCG:

GitHub - swicg/activitypub-api: ActivityPub API Task Force repository.

ActivityPub API Task Force repository. Contribute to swicg/activitypub-api development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub (github.com)

I think @django has done great work to evaluate all the different servers. It would be cool to get to a reference server that developers could use.

@lrhodes @liaizon

I've been to some of the Bluesky / ATmosphere conferences.

You are correct that there are former AP people over there (at AT) now.

I talked to a number of them. This (at the following URL) is a common reason I heard for why they switched from AP to AT:

@reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman: (@reiver@mastodon.social)

One person saying — builders have mostly left Mastodon (and gone to Bluesky), because when developers try to build on Mastodon, they get yelled at, and maybe even receive death threats. #ATmosphereConf

Mastodon (mastodon.social)

(I am quoting / paraphrasing someone who switched AP to AT. But, I heard others say similar, too.)

...

@evan @liaizon I haven't yet got to evaluating ALL the servers from @smallcircles delightful list, but my list is growing https://github.com/mediaformat/c2s

@django @evan @liaizon

Hey, this is great. It is so nice to see the uptick of interest in the #C2S part of #ActivityPub. Very uplifting and gives me hope for the future of #fediverse.

I really liked your #FOSDEM presentation, and thank you for mentioning my humble list. They are just notes atm, but I will try to keep them up-to-date. I just made a bunch of updates..

Which ActivityPub applications support Client-to-Server (C2S)?

delightful-fediverse-experience - A curated list of server applications supported on the ActivityPub Fediverse and related standards.

Codeberg.org (codeberg.org)

Would love to hear more on what are the particular plans and goals for your project in the near future?

@django @evan @liaizon

Hey, this is great. It is so nice to see the uptick of interest in the #C2S part of #ActivityPub. Very uplifting and gives me hope for the future of #fediverse.

I really liked your #FOSDEM presentation, and thank you for mentioning my humble list. They are just notes atm, but I will try to keep them up-to-date. I just made a bunch of updates..

Which ActivityPub applications support Client-to-Server (C2S)?

delightful-fediverse-experience - A curated list of server applications supported on the ActivityPub Fediverse and related standards.

Codeberg.org (codeberg.org)

Would love to hear more on what are the particular plans and goals for your project in the near future?

@smallcircles @django @evan just saw this in the #fediverse-devs:matrix.org room

@liaizon @django @evan

Nice. Do you know which project this refers to?

@smallcircles @django @evan looks like its in reference to https://dev.alien.cool by @raphael

@liaizon @smallcircles @django @evan

https://activitypub.mushroomlabs.com is the project site. dev.alien.cool is just my dev deployment (please be gentle)

@raphael @liaizon @smallcircles @django ha! There are a lot of Djangos involved in the social API.

i really should try to get back to sleep, but i saw you never got a response and i strongly believe in giving people resources if they’re genuinely open to other ideas.

when it comes to being anti-capitalist, i think of the Mr. Gotcha comic

(www.reddit.com)

you can recognize capitalism as harmful and also “participate” in it when you have to survive in a society that offers no alternative, while you work towards said alternative.

i think of the frustration that can come from therapists being “paid to care.” a therapist can genuinely care while being paid - they need to eat.

i would recommend following people who are anti-capitalist, as well as minorities (racial/lgbt/disabled) so you can understand how capitalism harms people, and also learn about alternative ideas (since there are many). do understand that a lot of discussions may be emotionally charged and might make you feel uncomfortable. i have, and still often do, feel that way. generally i try not to argue, but i take the information in and reflect on it. what it means, why the person had the response, what is making me have my emotional response. i’ve found it so useful for educating myself as well as having better emotional regulation, empathy, patience, and compassion. there is no losing.

@brinazarski @liaizon @401matthall thank you for the insightful response. I was looking for a more concrete advice on alternative ways of funding, since I am a builder and like Mastodon, I find it hard to fund public goods. But thank you for sharing the spirit of what anti-capitalism means for you. It's all coming from a good place. I have had my share of hardships and I don't come from money (relatively speaking), so I relate to what you're talking about!

@liaizon @undead And the server-based moderation doesn't help here. Users feel trapped, it makes things worse. But to be fair it's not specific to activity pub. Bluesky has its own echo chamber, and X as well. But at least the underlying philosophy behind atproto tries to create bridge between groups rather than segregating them in echo chambers.

@adriano @squeakypancakes @liaizon the only problem I had was misinterpreting my point and saying I'm pro genocide or stuff like that. It's ok to disagree with me on anarchist/anti capitalist and protocol stuff since that's what I called for.