I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
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@reiver
There is lots of talking about a Fedi "culture" that allows this and expects that. But the real culture is that we allow these gatekeepers and bullies to shout, despite that they don't represent the Fediverse, "the community" or "the culture". Every time a developer folds the bullies win and we lose.
@lrhodes @liaizon -
I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
The separation between PDS and appview is a great advantage. I guess ActivityPods's is trying to do something similar by unify Solis and AP, but I don't see much talk about it.
ATProto also has something alike Zot's "nomadic identity". And while there has been work to get it working on ActivityPub, only a few software support it and many don't even care about implementing it.
A big problem of the AP side of fedi is that while seeing itself as the most decentralised in quantitative terms, in some qualitative aspect acts in a semi-centralised manner either by making migration harder and incomplete or by being suspicious of any tool that separates identity from log in credential (nomadic identity, multiple identities, etc). It's pretty obvious that many AP devs and sysadmins have a user lock-in mentally and only defend the self-hosting aspect of decentralisation.
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@thisismissem @laurenshof I really really don't understand why so many ap devs just refuse altogether to participate in the standardiazion process. I wonder how we could make FEPs more exciting for people. How much of this is a vibe thing
@liaizon @thisismissem @laurenshof it's because FEPs aren't standards and the actual standards are not allowed to change
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
@liaizon I absolutely agree. I think the client-first development environment for ATProto makes this kind of work extremely emergent.
As @tsyesika said at FOSDEM in the Social Web Devroom, the ActivityPub social API ("C2S") is our equivalent to this programming interface. We need to get it kickstarted so we can build interesting social networking applications without having to build the server side, delivery, queuing, etc.
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@liaizon I absolutely agree. I think the client-first development environment for ATProto makes this kind of work extremely emergent.
As @tsyesika said at FOSDEM in the Social Web Devroom, the ActivityPub social API ("C2S") is our equivalent to this programming interface. We need to get it kickstarted so we can build interesting social networking applications without having to build the server side, delivery, queuing, etc.
@evan @liaizon @tsyesika see you tomorrow
[C2S] Add Client-to-Server ActivityPub API support by pfefferle · Pull Request #2851 · Automattic/wordpress-activitypub
ActivityPub for WordPress. Contribute to Automattic/wordpress-activitypub development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
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@liaizon @thisismissem @laurenshof it's because FEPs aren't standards and the actual standards are not allowed to change
@jenniferplusplus @thisismissem @laurenshof ouch... so with a combination of these two things, what would need to change to get you psyched about participating in the standardization of all these under-standardized edges?
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@evan @liaizon @tsyesika see you tomorrow
[C2S] Add Client-to-Server ActivityPub API support by pfefferle · Pull Request #2851 · Automattic/wordpress-activitypub
ActivityPub for WordPress. Contribute to Automattic/wordpress-activitypub development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
@pfefferle @evan @liaizon @tsyesika I was just going to say we have a meeting tomorrow!
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@jenniferplusplus @thisismissem @laurenshof ouch... so with a combination of these two things, what would need to change to get you psyched about participating in the standardization of all these under-standardized edges?
@liaizon @thisismissem @laurenshof
I genuinely don't know. Lexicons?
They provide 2 critical things. One is schemas, which actually support coordination and interoperability. The other is namespacing, which actually avoids collisions and supports efficient filtering. But linked data makes that impossible. -
@liaizon I absolutely agree. I think the client-first development environment for ATProto makes this kind of work extremely emergent.
As @tsyesika said at FOSDEM in the Social Web Devroom, the ActivityPub social API ("C2S") is our equivalent to this programming interface. We need to get it kickstarted so we can build interesting social networking applications without having to build the server side, delivery, queuing, etc.
We're trying to get this going in the SocialCG:
GitHub - swicg/activitypub-api: ActivityPub API Task Force repository.
ActivityPub API Task Force repository. Contribute to swicg/activitypub-api development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
I think @django has done great work to evaluate all the different servers. It would be cool to get to a reference server that developers could use.
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@liaizon @thisismissem @laurenshof
I genuinely don't know. Lexicons?
They provide 2 critical things. One is schemas, which actually support coordination and interoperability. The other is namespacing, which actually avoids collisions and supports efficient filtering. But linked data makes that impossible.@liaizon @thisismissem @laurenshof at a human level, I would need space where implementers can talk to each other without the crowd of armchair quarterbacks that always dominates the conversation
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We're trying to get this going in the SocialCG:
GitHub - swicg/activitypub-api: ActivityPub API Task Force repository.
ActivityPub API Task Force repository. Contribute to swicg/activitypub-api development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
I think @django has done great work to evaluate all the different servers. It would be cool to get to a reference server that developers could use.
@evan @liaizon I haven't yet got to evaluating ALL the servers from @smallcircles delightful list, but my list is growing https://github.com/mediaformat/c2s
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I've been to some of the Bluesky / ATmosphere conferences.
You are correct that there are former AP people over there (at AT) now.
I talked to a number of them. This (at the following URL) is a common reason I heard for why they switched from AP to AT:
@reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman: (@reiver@mastodon.social)
One person saying — builders have mostly left Mastodon (and gone to Bluesky), because when developers try to build on Mastodon, they get yelled at, and maybe even receive death threats. #ATmosphereConf
Mastodon (mastodon.social)
(I am quoting / paraphrasing someone who switched AP to AT. But, I heard others say similar, too.)
...
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@evan @liaizon I haven't yet got to evaluating ALL the servers from @smallcircles delightful list, but my list is growing https://github.com/mediaformat/c2s
Hey, this is great. It is so nice to see the uptick of interest in the #C2S part of #ActivityPub. Very uplifting and gives me hope for the future of #fediverse.
I really liked your #FOSDEM presentation, and thank you for mentioning my humble list. They are just notes atm, but I will try to keep them up-to-date. I just made a bunch of updates..
Which ActivityPub applications support Client-to-Server (C2S)?
delightful-fediverse-experience - A curated list of server applications supported on the ActivityPub Fediverse and related standards.
Codeberg.org (codeberg.org)
Would love to hear more on what are the particular plans and goals for your project in the near future?
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Hey, this is great. It is so nice to see the uptick of interest in the #C2S part of #ActivityPub. Very uplifting and gives me hope for the future of #fediverse.
I really liked your #FOSDEM presentation, and thank you for mentioning my humble list. They are just notes atm, but I will try to keep them up-to-date. I just made a bunch of updates..
Which ActivityPub applications support Client-to-Server (C2S)?
delightful-fediverse-experience - A curated list of server applications supported on the ActivityPub Fediverse and related standards.
Codeberg.org (codeberg.org)
Would love to hear more on what are the particular plans and goals for your project in the near future?
PS. For people who haven't seen it yet, the #FOSDEM presentation is at:
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Hey, this is great. It is so nice to see the uptick of interest in the #C2S part of #ActivityPub. Very uplifting and gives me hope for the future of #fediverse.
I really liked your #FOSDEM presentation, and thank you for mentioning my humble list. They are just notes atm, but I will try to keep them up-to-date. I just made a bunch of updates..
Which ActivityPub applications support Client-to-Server (C2S)?
delightful-fediverse-experience - A curated list of server applications supported on the ActivityPub Fediverse and related standards.
Codeberg.org (codeberg.org)
Would love to hear more on what are the particular plans and goals for your project in the near future?
@smallcircles @django @evan just saw this in the #fediverse-devs:matrix.org room
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@smallcircles @django @evan just saw this in the #fediverse-devs:matrix.org room
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@smallcircles @django @evan looks like its in reference to https://dev.alien.cool by @raphael
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@smallcircles @django @evan looks like its in reference to https://dev.alien.cool by @raphael
@liaizon @smallcircles @django @evan
https://activitypub.mushroomlabs.com is the project site. dev.alien.cool is just my dev deployment (please be gentle)
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@liaizon @smallcircles @django @evan
https://activitypub.mushroomlabs.com is the project site. dev.alien.cool is just my dev deployment (please be gentle)
@raphael @liaizon @smallcircles @django ha! There are a lot of Djangos involved in the social API.
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@raphael @liaizon @smallcircles @django ha! There are a lot of Djangos involved in the social API.
Also, you should give yourself a break and use the miscellany context.
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