Podcasting Chat Community

@rakoo nothing per se
https://fosstodon.org/@nicobao/116087391559624629

@liaizon @undead

Kinda upsetting that no one engaged with this, it was the core of my original tweet. Instead of asking what I meant, people jumped on me and twisted my words.

Not blaming anyone, most of you are good folks. That's just how these Twitter-like platforms work: they reward emotional reactions and viral buzz, foster a hostile environment, and make us defensive instead of thoughtful. Even Mastodon and Bluesky follow the same design.

All the more reason to get back to Agora.

@brinazarski @liaizon @401matthall thank you for the insightful response. I was looking for a more concrete advice on alternative ways of funding, since I am a builder and like Mastodon, I find it hard to fund public goods. But thank you for sharing the spirit of what anti-capitalism means for you. It's all coming from a good place. I have had my share of hardships and I don't come from money (relatively speaking), so I relate to what you're talking about!

@adriano @squeakypancakes @liaizon the only problem I had was misinterpreting my point and saying I'm pro genocide or stuff like that. It's ok to disagree with me on anarchist/anti capitalist and protocol stuff since that's what I called for.

@liaizon @401matthall any recommendations for reading materials?
I think it's pretty objective to say there is a problem between funding public goods versus venture capital where most of the money is. It's well studied and I've read a bit about it already. I'm all for alternative forms of financing. That's why I'm interested in the crypto space as well. I'm happy to learn about new ways to co-finance public goods sustainably.

@401matthall I really appreciate the kind words. Yes that tweet of mine was poorly phrased, and mildly offensive for people in the ActivityPub space. I reckon it was wrongly put.

@401matthall I completely share the ideal of a public-good community owned social network. I just don't think it's the *only* way forward. And it's far from easy to sustain. You still need to fundraise money for the foundation to maintain the software etc. I think there is potentially a better way. I may be wrong.

@401matthall @liaizon I really don't take any issue with you disagreeing with me Matt. I can see the value of a social network where communities form and govern themselves in echo chambers. I don't see the value of it in Twitter form. As a slack/matrix/discord chat room, that makes more sense to me.

The only issue I took earlier was about the misrepresentation of my thoughts (which was partially my fault). Many people thought I was talking about Palestine.

@401matthall @liaizon I'm very happy to agree to disagree on the opinions.

Though about what I said on the definition of what Free Software actually means, it's not an opinion but a fact.

But I respect that you think software should only be public good and receive exclusively donations of good will, if I understand well?

We can agree to disagree respectfully!

@401matthall @liaizon yeah, I'm not interested in echo chambers if that's what you mean. What's the point of a social network if you're just talking with people who have the same opinion as you?

@401matthall @liaizon my friend you have a problem with the definition of open source and free software. It has NEVER meant anything regarding monetization AT ALL. This is a complete misunderstanding. Free software != Free as in free beer. It's neutral to monetization. How do you think Nextcloud makes money if not by monetizing their FOSS?

I wrote this a long time ago. Good refresher, still relevant: https://github.com/baozi-technology/baozi-web/blob/master/content%2F09-11-2019%2Findex.md

@401matthall @liaizon I have a strong dislike of how strongly the ActivityPub crowd think about anticapitalism and anti-VC to the point the network feels so toxic in this regard that nobody with differing opinions would even join and stay.
It's not just the OP, it's pervasive across the network.

@401matthall @liaizon maybe I did! For "anarchist" I get it. For anti capitalist that doesn't make sense to me. Nothing prevents anybody at the protocol level from monetizing access to their API or other aspect of their server. No matter federated or not.

@401matthall @liaizon yes collectively you're behaving like one. And considering your last words, you're basically saying I deserve a torrent of tweets making me look like a fascist pro-genocide asshole just because I have differing opinions on technicalities of social protocols.
Sorry but if that's how you think a healthy community should function it's a bad look for ActivityPub.

@401matthall @liaizon
Dear Matt, you're misunderstanding my initial tweet. I was not referring to Palestinians. Read the comments in this thread to understand the context.

@liaizon @undead And the server-based moderation doesn't help here. Users feel trapped, it makes things worse. But to be fair it's not specific to activity pub. Bluesky has its own echo chamber, and X as well. But at least the underlying philosophy behind atproto tries to create bridge between groups rather than segregating them in echo chambers.

@liaizon @undead The reason why I have such a strong opinion against ActivityPub is that I saw, among other horror stories, how one of the most prominent cypherpunk builders of the ETH community tried to migrate from X to end up being banned by a large ActivityPub server for being a "capitalist". (This guy is not the typical despicable crypto bro. He's a thoughtful builder.)
So probably what I dislike is NOT the ideologies (if anything I appreciate the ideal), but really, it's the mob mentality.

@liaizon @undead fair enough! Drama over. I'm happy to discuss protocol philosophies. I think the activity pub approach to funding is probably the most ideologically pure as ideally social protocols are supposed to be public good. Like water infrastructure. So it makes sense that it's co-owned.
Where I disagree is that I think it's hard but *possible* to involve for-profit incentives in a way that doesn't prevent the network from flourishing.

@undead @liaizon the thing is I didn't ask to come here. OP took a screenshot, posted it here and then I received all these notifications misinterpreting my tweet and accusing me of things I don't even mean.

I genuinely do not like the "mob" mentality of ANY community. It's human nature but it's most of all a byproduct of "twitter-like" social apps
I get your point though I should have better phrased that initial tweet. I would have avoided unwillingly offending people and creating this drama.

@neauoire @liaizon that's a fair point and I do respect the Palestine argument. I didn't even know this information until OP pointed it out. I fully respect this take and I do not consider this extremist, and even if I did well we can discuss it normally.

My problem is my initial tweet was reacting to the anarchist/anti capitalist/anti VC ethos which is way more objectively, an extremist PoV (which is fine. Just not my cup of tea).

It's a misunderstanding.