@benroyce @iju @Mastodon @mellifluousbox my point is when a fascist orders you do a fascist thing and you do as you're told, you're a moral failure.

@ariarhythmic @starlily

so disobey

run a server

do not abide by id checks

then the govt shows up

now you are REALLY identified to the authorities

aria:

if you are trans (just going off the emoji in your profile), i understand why id checks are threatening to you. physically. mortally even

your heart is in the right place

but your brain is completely missing!

go after your government!

@benroyce @starlily Why can't we *both* go after the governments and refuse to obey in advance?

@ariarhythmic @iju @Mastodon @mellifluousbox

aria:

go

run a server

don't comply with id checks

watch what happens

nobody is standing in your way

do it

but might i suggest you vote, organize, and agitate to fight id laws?

if you really cared?

do you think walking up to a fascist and asking to be shot is effective resistance?

@ariarhythmic @starlily

because it's tactically moronic

you're not asking for resistance, you're demanding admins stand up and ask fascists to shoot them

this is not brave, this is not strong, it's fucking stupid

in resistance you think *strategy* and *tactics* because you want to be *effective*

right?

do you think grandstanding on social media with cringe foolish ineffective demands is anything remotely like that?

@benroyce @ariarhythmic @Mastodon @mellifluousbox

Yeah, I noticed the emoji, and I do understand they're problably really raw about the developments of the past few years. Particularly if they're in the States.

Opposing fascism is really healthy! I'm just concerned that jumping the gun with the GmbH leads to being ignored when sensible applications of age-checks (and what happens if you don't participate) are done.

This seems paramount.

@benroyce @ariarhythmic @Mastodon @mellifluousbox

Taking the hard-line with fascism is healthy, but pushing others to any course of action without knowing the cost to them seems non-strategic. (In this case: turning GmbH into latter-day Pirate Bay.)

No one battle will defeat fascism, but not fighting isn't the answer either. To push the allegory to the breaking point, we want sabotage and raiding, not cause a Verdun that will consume our future as surely as fascism will..

@ariarhythmic @benroyce @Mastodon @mellifluousbox

True, but have you considered that there are more ways to oppose fascist orders than just not applying them?

It's often much safer and/or profitable to implement a solution that follows the letter of the order and not the spirit.

Particularly in a situation like this where the order of implementation doesn't come from the fascists, or even (I think it's safe to say) collaborators.

@iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox

i have a better idea:

do what valve does

you need a credit card

they run a $0 authorization

*no id docs needed*

the server doesn't deal with sensitive data

even better:

now your cc is attached to your mastodon profile

your cc is right there for donating to the server later

as more people should be doing

snag:

germany doesn't consider a cc legally acceptable

but other jurisdictions do

Steam UK users will now need a credit card to access mature content due to the Online Safety Act

Valve recently put up a new support page, detailing the steps they've taken to comply with the UK Online Safety Act.

GamingOnLinux (www.gamingonlinux.com)

@Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron

@Mastodon @mellifluousbox Mastodon could aspire to replace X in Europe (given the current situation in the U.S. and the state of X). It is urgent that it include translation capabilities for this multilingual region

@meowki @benroyce @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron

Just so.

Also worth noting that some countries (at least my own) are enabling age-verification because you can't trust algorithms to show stuff people want/should see. If this is taken into account in the legistlation (which is still being written), then it wouldn't even apply to Mastodon.

Similar use-cases are probably found in other EU-countries, if not in Germany?

@meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron

My understanding is that they will be making the software updates available to other servers that are also forced to comply or get shut down. Is my understanding wrong? It could be

@nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic

thank you

you educated me

{hat tip}

@mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic

which is great of you, thank you

...and your stance is dependent upon the legalities of your jurisdiction

so people who do enable the age verification are not assholes, they just don't want their govt coming after them

and your own govt may change its mind, then you have to think about it

the problem is govt

not mastodon admins

@benroyce @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron

I for one will not remain on any server that asks for ID, treating such a thing as being a shutdown.If I have to move everything to the darknet I can and I will.

Single-user Mastodon servers hosted at home could make age verification useless.Torified federation if supoortes could prevent ISP blocking, as can mesh networking in built-up areas.

Even if this goes all the way to shuting down things like Signal, Matrix and other decentralozed altetnatives will be very hard to shut down.

Then there is Diaspora: I don't know a whole lot about it but it's supposed to work like Facebook UI wise but with distributee hosting on the backend

@benroyce @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic Shutting down is also an option. I could not in good conscience run anything that asks for ID. If I owned a store I would refuse to carry age restriced products for the same reason.

@LukefromDC @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron

which is all fine and good, because you're talking tactics not emotional grand standing

what you won't do therefore is attack some admin of a server of thousands or more for doing what they *have* to do so the govt doesn't knock on their door

@benroyce @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic The PR only adds an option to ask age, not to use a 3ed party AI verificstion "service" or read an ID. By itsrlf that's a nothingburger but I would still turn it off legal or otherwise on any server I ran.

Note that birthdays are dangerous in the hands of an atacker, so never enter your real one for any account anywhere. Let the account go if challenged

@LukefromDC @mark @nitrml @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic

what do you think about my post above asking for a credit card?

it achieves the same effect, and no one is getting a credit card without id. no server is getting your id and the security hassle with that, and you're not revealing your id anymore than it already has been

the big benefit: with your cc already attached to your profile, donating to your server becomes a breeze. and more people should be doing that

@benroyce @meowki @iju @ariarhythmic @mellifluousbox @Mastodon @MastodonEngineering @Gargron

No, I would attack the government and steer people to servers out of their reach. An admin hassled one too many times by cops might even need to move their own account to one if the cops go after their hosting