@liaizon blusky is one website so far so centralized it's just twitter lite.

@ruben All very good points!

And honestly, I also care less about fediverse being mainstream than about growing the diversity here.

But also, I really do want us to move beyond corporations being the middlemen of our social connections. Honestly, if ATProto takes off, Bluesky eventually folds, and the future is independent Atmosphere communities, that's really not so bad.

I care a lot less about the tech stack than who controls it.

(Okay, I will never get used to the ATProto-style usernames, for that reason alone, I hope the fediverse "wins".)

@liaizon ohh wafrn looks very cool

@Bike I mostly agree about the reasons you mention here. I guess the part that I am uncertain is what exactly "won" will look like. I don't see the current fediverse going away, but I do fail to see any path at this getting mainstream adoption like bluesky is currently getting. and that narrative concerns me. I think there are still avenues that must be taken to work together on a shared future path.

@liaizon for me both protocols have very different success conditions. In both cases having more users off the main platforms of tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, etc is a condition. but for bsky I think it looks like total users but for fedi in think it's number of servers too.

I think that the difficulty of deploying servers was part of the reason we didn't get larger adoption. I think what fedi is great at -smaller communities having both internal and external conversations - was hampered by those groups needing to have a server deployed. The communities that would have benefited went to discord instead, and the people whov wanted microblogging wanted universal reach.

I dont know how solveable this problem was for fedi given "it's too hard to make a webserver" has been a problem since geocities.

@liaizon sorry, that came out too confrontational.
after further consideration I don't think I currently care enough about this topic to engage with it at the necessary depth to have a meaningful conversation. not a super techy person anymore.

@elexia thanks for the reply, its a vast expanse of jank pretty much everywhere and very hard to keep up with everything.

@liaizon indeed

@liaizon i think one factor the ap ecosystem could do a lot better at is finding nodes for ap devs to aggregate around. part of atproto ecosystem dev speed is technical, but other important part is how atproto has a much more legible dev ecosystem that constantly interacts with each other. ap dev ecosystem is much more fragmented, with very little interaction between the devs

@liaizon on an abstracted level is ap well suited for building networked communities while atproto is great at global distribution. in that context its painful that the atproto network has run a lap around ap when it comes to dev ecosystem network

@laurenshof I think the age of the developers is not to be undervalued here, I feel like there are a lot more young ATP devs then on fedi

lol cool cool

@liaizon "extreme ideology" like thinking genocide bad hmm...

@liaizon "I don't want to be on the same instance as ICE"
"You must be what people call an extremist"

@liaizon Keep on running buddy

@liaizon @admin @anewsocial you can't be decentralized if you are on just one protocol ... and you can't win if you don't figure out how to work together ..

@liaizon looooooooool, how do people keep finding new ways for telling even harder on themselves? XD

I hope you don't mind @nicobao I federated your reply over here. As the cofounder and CTO of a company "Agora helps people overcome disagreement and find consensus, for more democratic and efficient decision-making." I would recommend doing some research into the ideologies that underline all of the decentralized protocols that exist and where they came from.

@liaizon this story feels a lot like the solid project https://solidproject.org/

Big splash at the beginning, some nerds get involved... but it's been years now, and when I tried to actually use one of the apps using it, UX was atrocious and I had to join a matrix room to get it working. Now I know I'm not the l33test hacker, but come on!

@liaizon I honestly feel a little bitter. I know I haven't been working on the protocol, or committing to repos, but I've done a lot of advertizing and advocacy over the years. In the faith that the developers were acting in our interests...

And I know they have been! I don't want to sound ungrateful.

Ach I don't know. Just feels a bit like I/we wasted (some of) our time.