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What's going on here?

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  • Dusk to Don :raccoon:D Dusk to Don :raccoon:

    @cR0w

    WILD! Thank you @mttaggart for reporting on this!

    ❝Okay, an update:

    We have pulled the story over concerns that it may have gone against our content policies. I locked the comments, and I'm going to lock this one too, we need some time.

    We are doing an investigation right now to figure out exactly what happened. Given that it's Friday afternoon we probably won't have something to report back until Monday, but we will follow up with an explanation for our readers. Edit: Monday is a holiday, my bad, and I don't know what we'll be able to say, so I don't want to over-promise anything.❞

    Source: Ars forum https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/journalistic-standards.1511650/#post-44249741

    Rusty ShacklefordR This user is from outside of this forum
    Rusty ShacklefordR This user is from outside of this forum
    Rusty Shackleford
    wrote last edited by
    #112

    @dusk @cR0w @mttaggart @iampytest1

    "…I don't know what we'll be able to say, so I don't want to over-promise anything…"

    You say, 'We won't use AI to write our publication'

    There's nothing else to say.
    There's no promises to be made.

    Ars prides itself on technical accuracy. AI slop is a direct hit to their identity. The longer they wait to give a straight answer, the more it *appears* like they're trying to figure out how much they can get away with, instead of just being bluntly transparent.

    Violet MadderV 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • TaggartM Taggart

      @theorangetheme I think the lock might be SOP for a pulled story. And mods tend not to like rampant speculation.

      AliideA This user is from outside of this forum
      AliideA This user is from outside of this forum
      Aliide
      wrote last edited by
      #113

      @mttaggart @theorangetheme I'm genuinely confused about how this was allowed to happen. I tend to assume Ars has better editorial processes than some of the places I've worked, and both writers have long-term specialisations. My most charitable explanation is that someone created a version that they though would be funny and that was accidentally published. Very curious to see what their investigation yields.

      The Orange ThemeT 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • AliideA Aliide

        @mttaggart @theorangetheme I'm genuinely confused about how this was allowed to happen. I tend to assume Ars has better editorial processes than some of the places I've worked, and both writers have long-term specialisations. My most charitable explanation is that someone created a version that they though would be funny and that was accidentally published. Very curious to see what their investigation yields.

        The Orange ThemeT This user is from outside of this forum
        The Orange ThemeT This user is from outside of this forum
        The Orange Theme
        wrote last edited by
        #114

        @aliide @mttaggart I think people either simply don't care anymore, or workers are under such corporate pressure to either deliver or use AI (or both), and this is the natural endpoint of that. Probably a little of both (I know genuine enthusiasts, for whom I've lost all respects, but I also know people who are basically being forced to use AI by their corporate overlords). I don't know much, but I do know this: journalists don't run newspapers.

        AliideA 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • The Orange ThemeT The Orange Theme

          @aliide @mttaggart I think people either simply don't care anymore, or workers are under such corporate pressure to either deliver or use AI (or both), and this is the natural endpoint of that. Probably a little of both (I know genuine enthusiasts, for whom I've lost all respects, but I also know people who are basically being forced to use AI by their corporate overlords). I don't know much, but I do know this: journalists don't run newspapers.

          AliideA This user is from outside of this forum
          AliideA This user is from outside of this forum
          Aliide
          wrote last edited by
          #115

          @theorangetheme @mttaggart oh, we very much don't, and I've even had editors insert mistakes into my stories before, without giving me readbacks. But this isn't the case of a single word or phrase, this is entire quotes being inserted. I don't buy into the idea that there is pressure on journos to use AI though — the point of the profession is original work, which AI by definition cannot do.

          The Orange ThemeT G 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • AliideA Aliide

            @theorangetheme @mttaggart oh, we very much don't, and I've even had editors insert mistakes into my stories before, without giving me readbacks. But this isn't the case of a single word or phrase, this is entire quotes being inserted. I don't buy into the idea that there is pressure on journos to use AI though — the point of the profession is original work, which AI by definition cannot do.

            The Orange ThemeT This user is from outside of this forum
            The Orange ThemeT This user is from outside of this forum
            The Orange Theme
            wrote last edited by
            #116

            @aliide @mttaggart I hope you're right. I'm trying not to be too cynical, but it's hard lately.

            The Orange ThemeT 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • The Orange ThemeT The Orange Theme

              @aliide @mttaggart I hope you're right. I'm trying not to be too cynical, but it's hard lately.

              The Orange ThemeT This user is from outside of this forum
              The Orange ThemeT This user is from outside of this forum
              The Orange Theme
              wrote last edited by
              #117

              @aliide @mttaggart Thank you for the work that you do, by the way. Good journalism is a treasure, and sorely needed.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • TaggartM Taggart

                What's going on here? The matplotlib maintainer this story is about correctly notes that all the quotes from his post in the article are made up.

                UPDATE: Link was pulled; see below.

                Link Preview Image
                Page not found 404 | Ars Technica

                favicon

                (arstechnica.com)

                Link Preview Image
                J.M. HillJ This user is from outside of this forum
                J.M. HillJ This user is from outside of this forum
                J.M. Hill
                wrote last edited by
                #118

                @mttaggart simply amazing, in the worst possible way.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • TaggartM Taggart

                  What's going on here? The matplotlib maintainer this story is about correctly notes that all the quotes from his post in the article are made up.

                  UPDATE: Link was pulled; see below.

                  Link Preview Image
                  Page not found 404 | Ars Technica

                  favicon

                  (arstechnica.com)

                  Link Preview Image
                  Hojjat :ferris:H This user is from outside of this forum
                  Hojjat :ferris:H This user is from outside of this forum
                  Hojjat :ferris:
                  wrote last edited by
                  #119

                  @mttaggart this is crazy. The Ai bots commenting under his blog is just rubbing salt on the wound.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Nicole ParsonsN Nicole Parsons

                    2/

                    Russia & Putin
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                    Kevin RussellK This user is from outside of this forum
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                    Kevin Russell
                    wrote last edited by
                    #120

                    @Npars01

                    Look at that picture! This is why you need to figure out how to get control of a robot at distance.

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                    • TaggartM Taggart

                      What's going on here? The matplotlib maintainer this story is about correctly notes that all the quotes from his post in the article are made up.

                      UPDATE: Link was pulled; see below.

                      Link Preview Image
                      Page not found 404 | Ars Technica

                      favicon

                      (arstechnica.com)

                      Link Preview Image
                      Bob K Mertz :distressedUS:B This user is from outside of this forum
                      Bob K Mertz :distressedUS:B This user is from outside of this forum
                      Bob K Mertz :distressedUS:
                      wrote last edited by
                      #121

                      @mttaggart
                      I don't know what is real anymore, holy shit.

                      If I'm reading things correctly Ars hallucinated the quotes in the article but still linked to this blog post correctly, right?

                      Link Preview Image
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                        Osteopenia Powers ;O This user is from outside of this forum
                        Osteopenia Powers ;O This user is from outside of this forum
                        Osteopenia Powers ;
                        wrote last edited by
                        #122

                        @Npars01
                        Imagine having half a BILLION dollars to change the world, and choosing to bring this about!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Rusty ShacklefordR Rusty Shackleford

                          @dusk @cR0w @mttaggart @iampytest1

                          "…I don't know what we'll be able to say, so I don't want to over-promise anything…"

                          You say, 'We won't use AI to write our publication'

                          There's nothing else to say.
                          There's no promises to be made.

                          Ars prides itself on technical accuracy. AI slop is a direct hit to their identity. The longer they wait to give a straight answer, the more it *appears* like they're trying to figure out how much they can get away with, instead of just being bluntly transparent.

                          Violet MadderV This user is from outside of this forum
                          Violet MadderV This user is from outside of this forum
                          Violet Madder
                          wrote last edited by
                          #123

                          @rusty__shackleford @dusk @cR0w @mttaggart @iampytest1

                          This is bad enough that a serious company that wanted to salvage their reputation properly might wanna consider putting in some weekend overtime.

                          But if they were being conscientious and diligent none of this would've happened in the first place. So of course instead it's, oops oh well I guess we'll deal with it sometime next week or something...

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Bob K Mertz :distressedUS:B Bob K Mertz :distressedUS:

                            @mttaggart
                            I don't know what is real anymore, holy shit.

                            If I'm reading things correctly Ars hallucinated the quotes in the article but still linked to this blog post correctly, right?

                            Link Preview Image
                            An AI Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me

                            Summary: An AI agent of unknown ownership autonomously wrote and published a personalized hit piece about me after I rejected its code, attempting to damage my reputation and shame me into acceptin…

                            favicon

                            The Shamblog (theshamblog.com)

                            Jennifer Moore 😷U This user is from outside of this forum
                            Jennifer Moore 😷U This user is from outside of this forum
                            Jennifer Moore 😷
                            wrote last edited by
                            #124

                            @bobkmertz

                            Yep, that's about the size of it!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • AliideA Aliide

                              @theorangetheme @mttaggart oh, we very much don't, and I've even had editors insert mistakes into my stories before, without giving me readbacks. But this isn't the case of a single word or phrase, this is entire quotes being inserted. I don't buy into the idea that there is pressure on journos to use AI though — the point of the profession is original work, which AI by definition cannot do.

                              G This user is from outside of this forum
                              G This user is from outside of this forum
                              Gerard Thornley
                              wrote last edited by
                              #125

                              @aliide @theorangetheme @mttaggart
                              You would think that your point about original work would apply to software engineering too (I think it does), but there seemingly are managers out there - or at least directors applying pressure - who want their engineers to use it.

                              AliideA 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • 💀 𝓕airchild 💀T 💀 𝓕airchild 💀

                                @mttaggart

                                We need some time to 'investigate' whether we are using AI or not. We plumb forgot.

                                LOL

                                ArtemisA This user is from outside of this forum
                                ArtemisA This user is from outside of this forum
                                Artemis
                                wrote last edited by
                                #126

                                @tankgrrl @mttaggart I mean, I assume that's what an internal investigation was about?
                                They probably want to properly call the author and ask them if they used AI or not, what were their sources, etc.
                                I don't think it's fair to mock them for wanting to conclude an investigation.

                                SnoopJS 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • G Gerard Thornley

                                  @aliide @theorangetheme @mttaggart
                                  You would think that your point about original work would apply to software engineering too (I think it does), but there seemingly are managers out there - or at least directors applying pressure - who want their engineers to use it.

                                  AliideA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  AliideA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Aliide
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #127

                                  @GerardThornley @theorangetheme @mttaggart

                                  I think the pressure on SWEs is *considerably* higher given the institutional pressure to make AI work! I'm sure many engineers want to write original code too, though.

                                  AliideA 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • AliideA Aliide

                                    @GerardThornley @theorangetheme @mttaggart

                                    I think the pressure on SWEs is *considerably* higher given the institutional pressure to make AI work! I'm sure many engineers want to write original code too, though.

                                    AliideA This user is from outside of this forum
                                    AliideA This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Aliide
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #128

                                    @GerardThornley @theorangetheme @mttaggart

                                    A bigger problem with AI and journalism is probably the volume of writers who have written about it who don't seem to understand that the fearmongering about it is part of the hype. Like the "AI could take over the world" spiel is definitely perpetuated by companies and individuals that want it venerated as some out-of-control force beyond human comprehension. It's just another side of the AI hype coin.

                                    G 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • chris@strafpla.netC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      chris@strafpla.netC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      chris@strafpla.net
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #129

                                      @addison @mttaggart It‘s in the Internet Archive.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • iam-py-testI iam-py-test

                                        @implementcontrols They issued this statement:

                                        Link Preview Image
                                        Journalistic standards?

                                        Hi folks, Since Ars is apparently posting partially or fully AI generated articles now, I have to ask - is this going to be a continued policy going...

                                        favicon

                                        Ars OpenForum (arstechnica.com)

                                        Lord Tom Klopf of CZ :jrbd:T This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Lord Tom Klopf of CZ :jrbd:T This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Lord Tom Klopf of CZ :jrbd:
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #130

                                        @iampytest1 @implementcontrols wow that’s insane. I read arstechnica every day, not anymore, big loss in credibility.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • AliideA Aliide

                                          @GerardThornley @theorangetheme @mttaggart

                                          A bigger problem with AI and journalism is probably the volume of writers who have written about it who don't seem to understand that the fearmongering about it is part of the hype. Like the "AI could take over the world" spiel is definitely perpetuated by companies and individuals that want it venerated as some out-of-control force beyond human comprehension. It's just another side of the AI hype coin.

                                          G This user is from outside of this forum
                                          G This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Gerard Thornley
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #131

                                          @aliide @theorangetheme @mttaggart
                                          Yeah, I do get a little frustrated with the big "skynet" doom scenario stories that for the time being are unlikely, when things like obfuscation of responsibility, (at least attempted) manipulation of populations, and drastic economic shifts are pretty much here already and certain to cause harm.

                                          AliideA 1 Reply Last reply
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