Hey Kids
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I've been thinking about this and I know even know what to tell you guys tbh. TLDR Alby isn't "free" anymore and we need an alternative and it's not going well. We've been looking for an alternative for years and well doesn't look like one really exist.
Good news is that Alby still does it all and more but requires resources from the users.
Since you guys are talking web I think just using the Alby extension is still the way to go.
@ChadF @mitch @martin Look into NWC. It's not that hard and opens up the possibility to connect many different wallets. https://github.com/getAlby/awesome-nwc?tab=readme-ov-file
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Most apps listed in Bitcoin Connect are just NWC connections and when you click on them it gives you detailed instructions on how to connect them which is nice but kind of misleading.
Those wallets also don't support keysend and most feeds have keysend addresses still so it's a nonstarter anyways but I'm just throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks.
Thanks man.
@ChadF @mitch @martin that's the reason many consider keysend “deprecated”. It still works great, but the vast majority of wallets don't support it. So we have two paths at this time: stay in an Alby-only world (I love them, but most users won't install AlbyHub to use a podcast app), or embrace LNAddress and extend it so it brings metadata. I'm chosing the second, and added NWC + Boostbox API to Castamatic.
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@ChadF @mitch @martin that's the reason many consider keysend “deprecated”. It still works great, but the vast majority of wallets don't support it. So we have two paths at this time: stay in an Alby-only world (I love them, but most users won't install AlbyHub to use a podcast app), or embrace LNAddress and extend it so it brings metadata. I'm chosing the second, and added NWC + Boostbox API to Castamatic.
@francosolerio @ChadF @mitch I am completely new to NWC/Boostbox. Can you give me the tl;dr and maybe a link to get started? How easy is it for the end user? What I loved about the early days of Alby etc. was that you could just buy satoshis for 20$ (or whatever) and then it was mostly plug and play.
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@martin @ChadF @mitch BoostBox API is a way to comunicate and store the old metadata payload we used to include in keysend, but on a separate server. It's quite simple, you POST the json metadata to a server, and get back a url to include in the LnAddress/LNURLp payment comments. The recipient of the payment uses that url to GET the same json metadata.
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@martin @ChadF @mitch BoostBox API is a way to comunicate and store the old metadata payload we used to include in keysend, but on a separate server. It's quite simple, you POST the json metadata to a server, and get back a url to include in the LnAddress/LNURLp payment comments. The recipient of the payment uses that url to GET the same json metadata.
@martin @ChadF @mitch For the user it's quite simple. Get any wallet you like (eg. Primal app gives you a NWC wallet for free if I remember correctly). Scan a QR code to connect app<->wallet. Then send boosts and stream sats as before.
AlbyHub can still be used via NWC.
Most difficult part for newbies IMHO is buying sats with USD, but that’s the same as before.
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@martin keysend still works as it did back in the beginning, I believe.
A key difference between keysend and lnaddress, is that keysend lets you send metadata with the payment, but lnaddress does not.
lnaddress does however, allow you send a memo, and so some apps are now hosting their own "boost metadata" endpoints, and including a link to boost metadata in the memo of the payments.
Add rss::payment Metadata by MerryOscar · Pull Request #734 · Podcastindex-org/podcast-namespace
A wholistic rss namespace for podcasting. Contribute to Podcastindex-org/podcast-namespace development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
So keysend adoption appears to be fading, while lnaddress adoption is rising.
@mitch @martin From the podcast creator side, lnaddress is much easier than keysend. With lnaddress you can pay me with a payment to james@podnews.net - with keysend it’s a complex set of numbers that are not portable. Strike is just one app that is available that acts as a (free) payment wallet.
Both allow you to send metadata with the payment. The difference is the length of that metadata. With lnaddress you need to send a URL pointing to JSON; with keysend you can send the data with your payment. It’s not true to say “no data” - just “less data”.
The privacy remains similar - the URL containing the JSON is still a long, GUID-like URL, which like Google Photos is open but is quite difficult to guess.
Worth remembering that the podcast creator side is one part of this; and then there’s the podcast listener side (for apps). We need both to be easy to develop
for and for humans to achieve. -
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@martin @ChadF @mitch For the user it's quite simple. Get any wallet you like (eg. Primal app gives you a NWC wallet for free if I remember correctly). Scan a QR code to connect app<->wallet. Then send boosts and stream sats as before.
AlbyHub can still be used via NWC.
Most difficult part for newbies IMHO is buying sats with USD, but that’s the same as before.
Primal is free and yet another app you need but it does work really well for this.
Now that we're looking into non-keysend options I'll have to revisit some wallet options again.
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@ChadF @mitch @martin Look into NWC. It's not that hard and opens up the possibility to connect many different wallets. https://github.com/getAlby/awesome-nwc?tab=readme-ov-file
@francosolerio @ChadF @martin thanks for sharing. We are steadily getting there towards NWC...I'm trying to see if I can programmatically run and populate a Bitcoin Lightning testnet first, so we can automate end-to-end testing.
This program Polar looks promising, but I just found it yesterday, and haven't made progress with it yet. https://lightningpolar.com/
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@martin I basically burned out on open source development from 2024 to early 2025...feeling much better now tho, and LLM advancements in the meantime have made things even more exciting and easier.
ActivityPub is still in the picture. I think there hasn't been much discussion lately around AP as a solution for boost metadata? @francosolerio could speak to AP much better than me. I'm still getting caught up.
I do think, broadly, LLM is making it easier to adopt robust standards like AP.
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