@nicobao @squeakypancakes @liaizon

Just trying to help you out here:
- you came in to quote toot aggressively and have mentioned the (part of the?) Fediverse's "extreme political ideology" it makes you run away,
- its mob mentality,
- how when people say stuff about you it's defamation and extreme and people need introspection,
- it is harassment,
- we guys are oppressing you,
- we guys are mobs,
- it's insane

but on the other hand, when you say stuff it's "what am I oppressing?"

I hope you don't mind @nicobao I federated your reply over here. As the cofounder and CTO of a company "Agora helps people overcome disagreement and find consensus, for more democratic and efficient decision-making." I would recommend doing some research into the ideologies that underline all of the decentralized protocols that exist and where they came from.

@Bike @liaizon Personally, I think a major factor in how ATProto/Bsky works "better" than ActivityPub is that your DID can be used across sites using the same protocol. You can login to "Popfeed" (like Goodreads, Backloggr, etc.) with your Bsky account and immediately see the content of people you're following.

With ActivityPub you can get Mastodon to operate with say Lemmy in a very janky way. Otherwise you're logging into multiple accounts. Better than the current web but worse than Bsky imo

@liaizon @Bike seems like the "mainstream" is still very much TBD. In the big picture it has almost no adoption, is losing active users by the day and all the supposed other applications for ATproto are virtually unused currently.

5 million MAU really isn't much and the startup is also probably going to have to find more funding soon.

Of course it's possible that all the excitement leads to newly found success but it doesn't seem like there's anything suggesting that is an inevitability.

@ikuturso @liaizon @Bike Definitely more mainstream than Mastodon but it's nowhere near the amount of users Threads has. The user base between each 3 feels very different too.

@squeakypancakes @liaizon And even if I'm wrong and it's not extremist. What I am oppressing by saying those words and barely disagreeing with you? (though this was a post on Bluesky I was not even talking to you)

You guys need seriously introspection

@Bike I mostly agree about the reasons you mention here. I guess the part that I am uncertain is what exactly "won" will look like. I don't see the current fediverse going away, but I do fail to see any path at this getting mainstream adoption like bluesky is currently getting. and that narrative concerns me. I think there are still avenues that must be taken to work together on a shared future path.

@squeakypancakes @liaizon what am I oppressing by saying anarchism and anti-capitalism is an extremist ideology? It's far left. Far. You guys are oppressing ME

@nicobao @squeakypancakes @liaizon the concept of extremism is moot in a headspace that sprung from monarchism and might makes right

@liaizon you're taking this WAY too personally, while we don't even know each other. I am very much entitled to my own opinion, btw, cofounder of Agora or not. I am not an anticapitalist anarchist, fine, so what? What the heck is this ad hominem attack? The whole point of Agora is to get people to talk to each other, people who usually don't appreciate each other, without trolling, and finding common ground. Your very reaction shows exactly why I build it.

I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"

I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.

*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto

@liaizon i think one factor the ap ecosystem could do a lot better at is finding nodes for ap devs to aggregate around. part of atproto ecosystem dev speed is technical, but other important part is how atproto has a much more legible dev ecosystem that constantly interacts with each other. ap dev ecosystem is much more fragmented, with very little interaction between the devs

@nicobao @liaizon It is, no worries X) It honestly didn't even register to me that someone could take offense to anarchism, so I went straight for the other points, but I get it. It's got a bad rep.

@laurenshof @liaizon interactions between AP software devs is painful to watch sometimes, and the lack of interest from imolementers to work on standards is truly impressive.

@thisismissem @laurenshof I really really don't understand why so many ap devs just refuse altogether to participate in the standardiazion process. I wonder how we could make FEPs more exciting for people. How much of this is a vibe thing

@liaizon @laurenshof because politics and fights and strong opinions divide us.

Standards work, particularly at the W3C, attracts a certain type of person, and that's usually very different to builders.

@thisismissem @liaizon @laurenshof 2¢: I'm writing my first FEP right now, it's a big one, and all the implementers have been great. Bringing their ideas and goals and perspectives, being polite, constructive and helpful. Might be a reflection of who's there (or who isn't), but hey.

The only hurdle so far is that no one seems to want to write. Then again, not having to merge other people's chunks of text into a cohesive document has its upsides.

@thisismissem @liaizon @laurenshof 2¢: I'm writing my first FEP right now, it's a big one, and all the implementers have been great. Bringing their ideas and goals and perspectives, being polite, constructive and helpful. Might be a reflection of who's there (or who isn't), but hey.

The only hurdle so far is that no one seems to want to write. Then again, not having to merge other people's chunks of text into a cohesive document has its upsides.

@liaizon @laurenshof because politics and fights and strong opinions divide us.

Standards work, particularly at the W3C, attracts a certain type of person, and that's usually very different to builders.